From Typhoon to Tranquility: Peter Moore's Trek Through Nepal

Speaker 1

[00.00.00]

And at that time I was hosting a, um, a radio show called Men's Health Live. And I thought, why don't I just go to Nepal for men's health? Naturally, when I got to Nepal, a typhoon was just breaking up over the Indian subcontinent, and all of that blew north into Nepal.

Speaker 2

[00.00.18]

Hello, and welcome to one off Travel Stories. I'm your host, Andrew Turner. Here, each episode I chat with someone about one of their favorite travel stories, that one story they've told countless times to friends and family around the dinner table. On this episode, I'm joined by Peter Moore. Peter is a writer, editor, and illustrator. He's had an amazing career. He spent over two decades at Men's Health. He got to meet and interview some really interesting people, including Barack Obama. He also has written or ghostwritten three New York Times bestsellers. He currently works at the Colorado Sun, and he also publishes a weekly on Substack called Road to Elsewhere. Definitely go check that out. I'll I'll link it in, uh, in the notes. He's going to tell us about one of the trips he took for men's Health to Nepal. Um, typical to the podcast, the trip goes a little wry, but um ends up being a fantastic experience, a really cool journey. So with that, let's jump into it. Hey, Peter, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 1

[00.01.36]

Oh, it's great to be here. Thank

Speaker 2

[00.01.37]

you. Yeah, great to have you. I really appreciate you taking the time. Looking forward to our conversation. I like to chat. I like to ask, uh, when people come on and given as a travel podcast, I get people calling in from all over. Uh, where are you today? You. Are you home? Are you on the road? Yeah. I'm.

Speaker 1

[00.01.55]

I'm sitting in my 1906 barn here in Fort Collins, Colorado. I moved out here eight years ago, um, after I got thrown out of my job at Men's Health magazine, and, uh, my wife and I realized that we could live wherever we wanted to. And the answer of where did we want to live? That was Fort Collins, Colorado, which is an amazing place. Awesome. Well, I already have questions. Now I won't get into the thrown out of the job, but, uh, why did you

Speaker 2

[00.02.19]

choose, uh, Colorado?

Speaker 1

[00.02.22]

Yeah. I wasn't thrown out because of shame. I, um, I got thrown out because the magazine industry was ending. Oh, well, you know, that happens in industries. Um, so, uh, Colorado was just a destination I've been coming to, you know, my whole life. Really, um, taking family vacations here. Um, uh, twice a year, I would come out either to ski or to hike in Colorado. And then when it became clear that, you know, the way the writing was on the wall at Men's Health. Um, you know, my wife and I asked each other. Okay. What's next? You know, our kids were grown and gone. What do we want to do next? And analysis of our travel for the last 20 years really revealed that if we just moved to Colorado, I would spend a lot less money on airfare flying out here and back to Pennsylvania. So based on that and the prevalence of deer ticks in Pennsylvania, where, you know, we're both likely to come down with Lyme disease if we spend another minute there. Uh, we drove west and we didn't come back. And we love it out here.

Speaker 2

[00.03.26]

Very cool. I'm, uh. I'm. I'm in Washington. I'm not from here. I moved out here as well. Sometimes feels very similar to Colorado. I haven't spent enough time there in the mountains, but I get into our mountains, the Cascades, a lot, so I definitely feel you there. Um. You, uh. Yeah, I, you know, I was looking over, um, some of what you've done, uh, professionally especially. I know you've got a Substack now, but you've been you're currently a cartoonist, you've been an editor, you've written books like you've done so much. Um, but I had to ask to. I know you've done a lot of traveling, you know. How did how did this all fit together, I guess. How did you get into travel? How did that fit in with work and and life?

Speaker 1

[00.04.08]

Well, you know, I think I had a genetic predisposition to travel. Um, one of my first, um, memories was flipping through the pages of the National Geographic before I could even read, and just being astonished by what a giant world it was. And, you know, the The guide to the Astonishing World was my dad, who, you know, read the National Geographic in order to come up with, uh, destinations for us to travel as a family. So on our block, we were those nutty people who would spend, you know, summer vacations. Not at the Jersey shore, but in Switzerland, or fly off to Bermuda or to travel all around England. Um, you know, I did all these things when I was ten, 13, 16 years old. And, you know, when you grow up in your family, you think that's the way normal people live? Um, clearly, now, looking back at it, I know that it is not the way normal people live, but it really, um, gave me a taste for it, which I then, you know, it's like passing on, uh, to your kids a dread Addiction. Both of my sons are are, you know, wide ranging around the world professionally and personally. So I think that, you know, that straight line coming from my dad to me to my wife and my two sons, you know, we're all travel mad and it's, you know, it's a major benediction in our lives that we have seen as much of the world as we have.

Speaker 2

[00.05.34]

That's amazing. I've asked the questions, you know, and I've asked the question in a number of ways to a number of people now. And honestly, the most common answer is it's what you have explained and, you know, in other ways, obviously, but one way or another from their parents, from their family, like they started young and they were hooked. So you also kind of unlocked like a core memory that I forgot I had. My grandmother used to give me the National Geographic right when I, you know, was was small. I never really thought about it until you said it, but, um. Yeah, it's it's funny that connection there. I remember looking at those magazines and just, you know, starting to get that. Whimsy, if you will, for the world wanting to see everything at that explorer inside of you being like, well, this is cool on the page, but you know, what does it look like in real life? So

Speaker 1

[00.06.27]

I also find that I use travel as, um, as a really good way to change the subject so that if I'm, you know, feeling pressured or down or whatever, it's like the answer isn't go into therapy. The answer is to buy tickets to Heathrow and see what happens

Speaker 2

[00.06.42]

next. Oh yeah, I yeah, I think a lot of people listening would, uh, would agree with that for sure. For sure. Travel. Uh, therapeutic. Therapeutic. Almost every step of it I, I get a lot of work done. I don't know about yourself, but, uh, on planes. Great great great little, great little time to focus. Uh, especially writing stuff or, you know, creative type work. So there you go. And and it's also been a great thing for me. Uh, you know, after I lost the, the job at Men's Health, um, you know, it started taking a bunch of, um, art classes, uh, in my, you know, probably in the last five years that I worked at Men's Health because I was just feeling overwhelmed with the amount of time that I spent every day writing, being in meetings, uh, talking on the phone. It was like I needed a hobby that would help me shut up. Um, being on podcasts is not one of those hobbies. Uh, of course, but, um. That's when I started taking drawing, painting classes, and I found

Speaker 1

[00.07.45]

that the combination of travel and and drawing has been a revelation for me. And it's, you know, something that's taken me a while in life to come around to. But I really love that I've reached that destination and it's completely changed up. You know how I look at the outdoors, how I look at travel, how I look at my own skills and potential? Um, and, you know, for your younger listeners, uh, yes. Old dog can learn new tricks, and maybe drawing is one of them.

Speaker 2

[00.08.15]

You know, I, I was going to ask about it, so I, I'm glad you brought it up because, uh, you know, writer, editor, illustrator. I don't know if there's, like a triple threat term in the industry, but I did notice your Substack kind of combines all those things, right? You're you're putting pen to paper with some interesting ideas, but then bringing them to life with more comical illustrations. Um, so I guess more of a comment than a question, but I, I appreciate that and I, I, you know, I kind of just assumed you'd been an illustrator for a long time, so really, really cool that you, you sort of learned that later on. Um, and you're finding it's kind of helping you express more, if you will.

Speaker 1

[00.08.59]

Yeah. I think a lot of us need to get over ourselves in the sense that, you know, especially working as an editor for 30 years like I did. I felt like everything needed to be perfect by the time I sent it off to the printer. Whereas, you know, with artwork, um, you know, perfection isn't really the goal. It's getting in touch with, um, a landscape or with people or with an experience that you, that you're having in a different way than you process it intellectually or verbally. So, you know, very early on, and when I started doing my Substack, I realized that the function of my drawings was to point at the writer and laugh at him so that I've got this inner critic going on. And he's a and he has a sense of humor and likes to make fun of me. So you know that by play between text and, uh, and illustrations or cartoons, um, has become a super important thing to me. Um, it's the direction that my career is going with now, because evidently other people like to have me do drawings that laugh at me or at Colorado or at whatever subject, you know, the aging process. I mean, there are people who hire me for my perspective on a lot of those things, and I'd love to be able to deliver it in words and in pictures. And, you know, I just, you know, anyone listening to this should think, you know, what other complementary skills do I have hidden that I can start playing around with to see if maybe it'll open up my life more? And it certainly has done that for me.

Speaker 2

[00.10.29]

Great advice, great advice. Um. I'll start moving towards the story. You know, this podcast is about travel stories in more of a long form. You know, ones that folks remember for years to come. Or I like to say, share around the dinner table. So I know you, um, you're gonna you're gonna tell a little bit about a trip or travel you did to Nepal. Um, yeah. Can you give us a little background? I mean, maybe. What year was it? Why? Why were you going there? Um, yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.11.00]

Yeah, I, I was lucky enough to have a terrific new boss takeover and, um, at Men's Health for me, I was the editor. He was the editor in chief. And, you know, when he took over, he said to me, listen, you've put in your time at this magazine. I want to make sure that you're really, uh, loving your time here and enjoying it. And I had, in fact, given the magazine the best years of my life. So, um, I didn't wait for more permission from him. I started cooking up amazing trips that I could take. Um, and at that time, I was hosting a, um, a radio show called Men's Health Live. And I thought, hey, you know those guys on the today show, you know, they'll spend a week in Rome when there's been, you know, a new pope being chosen or whatever. Why don't I just go to Nepal for men's health? So I brought my radio show and lots of, uh, uh, complex equipment that was carried by porters. Thank you very much. Porters. Um, while we while I trekked through, um, Nepal, the original plan was to go to the airport at Lukla, where, you know, famously one of the most dangerous airports in the world, and start the trek into Everest Base camp. Naturally, when I got to Nepal, a typhoon was just breaking up over the Indian subcontinent, and all of that blew north into Nepal. So instead of it being the dry season, I was in a very wet season in Nepal, which, you know, only crazy people go to Nepal when it's wet there. And you'd have to count me as one of those crazy people. But I had an amazing trip anyway.

Speaker 2

[00.12.29]

Okay, so. So, um, a lot of lot to unpack there. And I love the, the angle. I think, you know, travelers, probably everyone who travels has thought, like, how can I how can I get someone to pay for this trip? You know, whether you're watching Anthony Bourdain eating around the world or whatever. So we've got someone live who you've managed to do it a little bit at your tail end of Men's Health. Um, I guess, um, the, the idea for the radio show for the story was about Everest, is that right? Like walking, going to base camp or was it. Was there other angles to

Speaker 1

[00.13.07]

it? You know, it's part of you know, it was one of the subject matters that we covered in Men's Health. And I did a fair amount of covering it that way myself was travel as transformation. So, you know, this trip didn't require me to, you know, look at Mount Everest, which I finally did via an airplane flight, which was also a thrill. Um, it more had to do with how do you prepare for a trip like that physically? Um, what do you need to prepare yourself philosophically, emotionally for it and just to get somebody else's perspective and experience with it? And also, you know, just, uh, you know, the transformative effect of being in an entirely different world from the one that I spent most of my time in and, you know, really stepping off the plane and Kathmandu. That's a big life change right there. You know, nothing is the same once you get off that airplane.

Speaker 2

[00.14.01]

It's a good segue. I'm going to ask you more about the transformation stuff along the way, but good segue. You know, there's a typhoon, so it's a dangerous airport. How? Before you step off the plane, how is that flight in?

Speaker 1

[00.14.14]

Um, the flight in was fine. You know, I went, uh, New York, Dubai. Kathmandu. Um, Dubai is mind blowing in its own way because you're flying over this vast desert. It's either ocean or vast desert. And then suddenly, Manhattan erupts out of the middle of, like, this vast gray brown area. And you're thinking, you know, how did they arrange the water to do this? Um, but it was amazing to spend, you know, so I spent probably ten hours walking around Dubai looking up at that enormous skyscraper, going to the biggest mall I've ever been to with a five storey high aquarium in it. You know, it was like all these things were just, you know, startling and stunning to me to be there in Dubai and then oops, time to go to the airport off to Kathmandu, which is a very tough town. Um, you know, you can tell that it's, uh, improvised. Pulled together. Held together with chewing gum and, uh, you know, in raffia strips and, uh, populated by, uh, lots of monkeys and, you know, a couple million Nepalis. Um, one of the first things I noticed, um, you know, ironically, I had just been on a work trip to, um, India, um, probably four weeks before I ended up in Kathmandu. And as soon as I got off the plane, I felt a certain warmth from the people there, a certain acceptance. Um, you know, when people give you this routine and say Namaste to you, they really are saluting the deity within themselves and with you. Um, that peacefulness and that sense of thoughtful tranquility I very much sensed, even in the middle of a crazy city like Kathmandu.

Speaker 2

[00.15.57]

Um. Yeah. That's, um. That's interesting. The, uh. And actually, before I ask the question, what what year are we in, roughly? Not

Speaker 1

[00.16.09]

exactly. Yeah, you did us. It's about. It was about a decade ago now. 20. Uh, yeah, it was 2013. The fall of 2013 when I went. Okay.

Speaker 2

[00.16.17]

Yeah. Just to give. Give us a sense. Uh, things seem to change quite rapidly these days.

Speaker 1

[00.16.24]

Um,

Speaker 2

[00.16.26]

yeah. No, I that's interesting. Especially coming from, I mean, the juxtaposition from Dubai to somewhere that you're explaining, like Katmandu. Just that alone is is a lot. Especially if you've got only ten hours. Did that walk around? I've done the exact same thing. It is, uh, it is a little overwhelming, right? Like it's just everything huge. Uh, in the middle of nowhere. And then you go somewhere much more remote from there. Um, so, uh, you step off the plane, and as you said, you're there's a sense of peace that runs over you. But you I take it you've got to work too. So where? Where are you off to next? Um,

Speaker 1

[00.17.08]

we spent a few days just to get over jetlag and Kathmandu and, you know, meet up with our tour company. Um, we had a small group of guys that were doing this, you know, guide trip together. Um, and, uh, we met up with our, our, our guide and our host, a man named Deepak, who, um, was just a beautiful soul. That's the only way I could describe him. I could tell from the beginning that, um, that he was very much, uh, committed to acknowledging. Acknowledging each of us personally, um, gauging what strengths and weaknesses we had for the hike ahead and also, um, setting a tone of, um, cooperation and mutual support as we were heading off to do this thing, which was, you know, very difficult physically. I mean, we weren't hanging off of any cliffs or anything via ropes, but, you know, we arrived in Kathmandu at 5000ft. We were, um, you know, the, uh, the little town that we left from was at about 12,000ft. Um. This is going to be a big challenge to me. The whole time was the altitude that we were hiking at. Um, but I also, uh, by a miracle of good timing, managed to catch a bad cold in Emmaus, Pennsylvania before I left. So I was Typhoid Peter, flying halfway around the world so that I could infect a lot of other people with a, uh, you know, with a lung infection. It wasn't wasn't a good thing, but I didn't have any choice. It was like I was there. This was the trip of a lifetime. I was going to soldier through it. And, you know, somehow I made it.

Speaker 2

[00.18.40]

Yeah. Uh, that's that's definitely. That's a lot. I know that happens sometimes, but that's a lot. I actually going back to, um, this topic, travel as transformation. I'm just connecting that with someone like Deepak. Um, because I find this a lot too. Did you what did you do to sort of prepare? And I guess the part two of the question is, you know, how much does someone like Deepak really help you along that journey? It's not something you can really prepare for, right? But when you've got someone like that, it just I. Yeah. Curious.

Speaker 1

[00.19.14]

You know, for me, a major part of the fun of travel is looking forward to it and preparing for it. So, you know, I had this notion in mind for about six months while I was talking my boss into actually letting me go do it and ignore the giant magazine that we were working on at the time, you know, for three weeks. Um, but that's when I started, you know, taking books out of the libraries. I don't you've probably run across the Traveler's Tales series. You know that

Speaker 2

[00.19.40]

one? Yeah. In the library, actually. Like, literally, I went this was like a month ago, and I was looking through travel books because, you know what I do, I suppose. And I found that one. So. Yeah. Yeah. Nepal. And I read about a, um, a guy who, um, had, uh, he bent over, he was thirsty, bent over a puddle, and was drinking directly from the puddle. This was a hiker, a trekker in Nepal. And he started having these weird symptoms of hallucinations and all this stuff. And he went to a series of doctors. They couldn't figure it out. Finally, he went to a Nepali. I guess you would call him a shaman. And the the shaman looked at him. And then he drew a glass of water and held it underneath the guy's nose, and this worm came down out of his nose. And the guy, you know, took a forceps and pulled an eight inch worm out of the guy's nasal passages. And it turns out that those worms ordinarily would be crawling up into yak noses. Not human noses, but one of them, you know, took advantage of the small opening and and was living at home in the guy's head until, you know, he found the right Nepali doctor to diagnose him. So that was one of the that was one of the many traveler's tales I was incorporating, thinking I am going to a very wild place, and I'm going to have to be careful so that I can return home to my wife and family, which, you know, evidently I did, and no, and I got zero worms up my nose, just as anybody's wondering. Great. I mean,

Speaker 1

[00.21.12]

that's just part of the preparation. I also put on my hiking boots. Um, I was living in eastern Pennsylvania at the time, very hilly area. And I put on my hiking boots in, in a backpack on, and I would run up mountains and back down them at lunchtime every day, uh, for probably two months before I left. And then also, I figured I didn't want to have jetlag when I got to Kathmandu. So every morning I would wake up a half an hour earlier until I was going to bed at about 7 p.m. and waking up at 2:02 a.m. in order to get myself onto Nepali time in advance. And I think that actually worked, which is kind of surprising. Well,

Speaker 2

[00.21.52]

you were well prepared. Well prepared? Was that called rucking? I was just reading about this rucking. Um, filling up a knapsack with weight and just climbing hills, basically. Yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.22.04]

Um, I've been a backpacker for a long time, so that wasn't such a surprise to me. Yeah. Um, but it was, you know, in the end, I needed it because I was going to be traveling at, you know, altitudes and at inclinations that I just wasn't used to in my normal

Speaker 2

[00.22.17]

life. That's great. Always good to be prepared, especially for a trip like this. And then. Yeah. And then you meet Deepak and I, I gotta I gotta imagine that felt good, right? In the sense of you did all this preparation, but you've also met someone who seems to be giving genuine care and thought to the situation.

Speaker 1

[00.22.35]

Yeah, I you know, I remain entranced by the Nepali people. One of the, you know, my buddy and I who I've known my whole adult life, um, we're walking around on the streets of Kathmandu not long after we got there, and we saw a bunch of guys walking around holding hands, and I thought, well, you wouldn't see that. Even in certain neighborhoods in New York City, you don't see a lot of guys walking around holding hands. And we asked Deepak about it and he said, oh, they're just best buddies. Um, and and that's the way they show to each other, which I think is a beautiful gesture. So my friend Ron and I, you know, I traveled with him. I said, you know, we've known each other for a long time. Let's try to walk down the street holding hands. And we only lasted for about three seconds because it was just too weird to do that. Yeah. Um, but, you know, it speaks to me anyway. It speaks to a certain, um, uh, responsiveness and empathy among people in, in Nepal, um, toward each other. At least that's how I'm interpreting it. You know, I've spent a total of three weeks there in my whole life, so I'm not an expert, but just witnessing it on the street and seeing what people were up to and the consideration they gave each other. And to me as a, um, gosh, I was yeah, I remember I was on the airplane flying from Dubai to Kathmandu and there was a Nepali man, like standing in the aisle. He was clearly waiting to go to use the, you know, the the restroom on the plane, just like I was. And he turned around and saw me and he said, oh, you're from the United States. You should go first to the lavatory. And I said, Why should I go first? He said. Well, because we Nepalis are always so grateful when anyone from your country agrees to come visit us. So I owe you that. And of course, you know. I pushed him off to the bathroom and let him go first. But it was just like that. Somebody would see me and have that kind of consideration for me was kind of amazing. And could you imagine that happening, you know, when your average, uh, flight into LaGuardia? I don't think

Speaker 2

[00.24.34]

so. Probably not. No. Yeah, I do. I always love those situations where you see something that's so foreign to our culture, and you are able to kind of just think through why, like, does it like holding hands feels very strange, but really, does it matter? Right. Like, is it a big deal? No. Not really. So you can see it live in action where people aren't thinking about it at all the same way. Um, which is always very interesting. Obviously we talk about we talk about food a lot, um, being one of those things. But it's a great example, you know, bodies, bodies, holding hands,

Speaker 1

[00.25.15]

um, however briefly. Yeah. Yeah. You guys gave it a shot, I appreciate it, I appreciate that. Um, okay. So you're you're there and you're prepping for for your hike.

Speaker 2

[00.25.27]

Um, yeah. Take us. Yeah. Take us to the to the. What's next?

Speaker 1

[00.25.33]

Yeah. It was one of the real revelations to us. You know, I wasn't. I just packed every last thing I thought I might possibly need, um, to bring over there. Um, and then on the day that we. Okay, so the whole thing fell through, right? We're all disappointed. Go back to our hotel. What are we going to do now? Deepak proposes the Langtang ghost trek, which is also a very famous trek in Nepal. Um, just it's not to the airport in Lukla. Anyway, we're scrambling together, packing up all of our stuff, and we, you know, we catch a taxi cab to where our Land Rover is waiting to take us to the small town of Dungy, which is where our, um, our trek was to begin. And there are these, these four guys hanging around, um, you know, waiting to join us. You know, on the, you know, the, the, the eight hour arduous, harrowing drive to Dungy and, and Deepak introduce them to us that they would be our porters. And I can still remember my guy with a he was wearing pink pants. It was like right out of, you know, the Barbie movie. Um, but, you know, it was it was his fashion choice. He can wear if he wants. Um, but it was a little, uh, shocker. And then the further shock came when we were actually in Dungey, um, preparing to take off on the first day, and I saw this guy pick up my suitcase, put it on his back, throw rope around it, tie it around his waist and head off into the jungle. And I'm like. If I had been thinking about this a little more carefully, I would have made. I would have arranged to have a suitcase that would be like my my, my backpack or whatever. Right? But, you know, these guys were just, like, tying parcels onto themselves, like beasts of burden. As you can imagine, it makes you feel terrible as a self-respecting backpacker to have an 18 year old Nepali guy in pink pants walk off into the jungle with your suitcase roped to his back. On the other hand, I couldn't have made it any other way. And you know, we did tip them very well at the end of the trip. Um, but, you know, you know, guilt is something that you carry with you when there's a porter ahead of you on the trail, uh, with his with your suitcase strapped to his back. But he was a sweet guy. You know, he didn't speak my language. I didn't speak his. But we had a sharing time together, and, um, he knew that I appreciated all that he did, and. And I think that he thought it was kind of cool to rub shoulders with these crazy people from America who wanted to, uh, hike into Langtang and go Secunda. So we got along well. Nice. Um, I, I would feel the same way, but what are you going to do? Right. Um, yeah. And they tend to be. I mean, once you, when you do it, as you know, when you do it all the time, I think the and I've heard this, the strength and the perseverance is at a level that you, you're I think everyone's always surprised by. Right. Like they can be, um,

Speaker 2

[00.28.35]

you know, carrying those packs like it's nothing up steep hills and you're like, oh my God.

Speaker 1

[00.28.40]

Yeah. They were. They were used to living at that altitude. These guys, um. And. You know, I don't know what the average wage is in Nepal. It can't be much. And I'm sure these guys, you know, felt like they were they had some pretty cool jobs hanging around with Westerners and schlepping their suitcases up into the up into the mountain mists. Um, so they seemed happy about it, especially after we gave them the big tip at the end and said goodbye. Um, but, uh, you know, nobody was complaining. It was. We were all a, you know, a merry, a merry group or as merry as you can be when there's a monsoon hitting you on the head in the high country in Nepal.

Speaker 2

[00.29.21]

Right. So how was it? How was it for you? How was this hike? And and I guess. How did it, um, you you must have had to shift the story a little bit. Um, yeah. How did it impact what you were? Were you trying to

Speaker 1

[00.29.33]

accomplish? I was interviewing, you know, the time frame was difficult, but I was interviewing with radio stations all across the, the US. Um, about about this trip, talking about my reflections on Nepal, you know, the importance of, uh, of a trek that it can have in your life. Um, so, you know, I was at odd hours of the day, I was, like, firing up the, um, the, uh, the satellite, um, uh, communication device we had with us so that I could do these interviews, but it was. And I considered it a privilege to be, um, beaming these, uh, ideas and experiences back to the US. In addition to recording um, uh, episodes for um for Men's Health live at the same time. So, you know, it was a different way to, um, to carry the message back to the US for me, because usually I did it as a writer, but this time I did it as a kind of a radio correspondent. Yeah. So I put on my Edward Murrow hat and, uh, you know, reported from behind the lines and, uh, in Nepal. And it was very cool to do so.

Speaker 2

[00.30.39]

Yeah. Really cool. So you were actually, like, on the hike, kind of in the middle of it, doing doing interviews. There's currently a monsoon that must have been, uh, that must have been interesting for, for, you know, the feed, if you will, if it was live stuff. Um, yeah. That that's that sounds fascinating. Yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.30.58]

It's a decade later, and I'm still wet from that monsoon. It was, you know, it was this crazy thing to. We stayed in what they called tea houses on high. You know, that's that's the that's the those are the mountain huts of Nepal. They call them tea houses. And I guess it's a symbol of, um, welcome that at a tea house, you always leave your front door open, except for when there's a monsoon. It means that the monsoon is blowing in as well. So it was like. Yes, they had, like, they had hot fires in there and we were all, like, practically embracing the fireplaces where we were. In the meantime, rain and wind and clouds were blowing in the front door of the tea houses we were staying in. And every now and then I would, like get up. Close the door briefly. The heat would. The heat level would rise in whatever room I was in, but then the innkeeper would walk to the door and look at it as if it was on fire or something. I was like, who closed this door? Creak! The wind comes in the rain. But that's just how they like it at tea houses in Nepal. And I still can't explain it, except for maybe it is a symbol of welcome. Or maybe they just wanted to freeze me. Um, to show me what it's all about up there.

Speaker 2

[00.32.08]

They take their hospitality or their welcome very seriously, apparently. Um, so what was your. Tell me about your ultimate destination on this hike? Where were you? Where are you heading to?

Speaker 1

[00.32.19]

Yeah, well, the, um, the final treat on the trip. Well, first of all, we went into Langtang, which was a high mountain. Um, village must be at 14,000ft. And it was also known as the epicenter of the 2015 Nepal earthquake. So I don't know what's going on in that little village now, I, I hate to think of it, especially right after the earthquake happened. It killed 8000 people in Nepal and India. So Langtang must have been flattened as the epicenter, which is a very scary thing to think about. Yeah. Um, and, you know, for a while there, I tried to pitch my editors at backpacker magazine to send me back to Langtang so that I could, you know, do part two of the story. I still haven't been, but my heart went out to the people who lived there and the survivors. Um, but, you know, again, this was about a year and a half before I was there or a year and a half after I was there. Yeah. Um, the end of our trip, um, was to a lake called Secunda, which is a pilgrimage site in Nepal. Um, and the, um, you know, the legend of Shiva, um, uh, you know, the the Hindu god of creation and destruction. Um, had him going to go Secunda, um, because he had been given, uh, he had drunk the poison, all the poison of the world into his body, and he needed to go to go Secunda and lie down underneath the lake to have his body purified and have the world saved from these poisons. A beautiful gesture if you're a Hindu god, for sure. And that's the reason why it's a, um. It's a pilgrimage site. Because, uh, lots of people, including people who I shared the trail with, were heading up there to do a ritual purification. Um, so, you know, when I got wind of this whole legend, Deepak told us all about it. I thought. I could use a little purification too. So I went down to the, uh, you know, to the edge of Lagos. I stripped off my, uh, my shirt. I didn't go well, I didn't go for full immersion. I wasn't ready for that because it was cold up there. Um, but I did just, you know, have a ritual bath, washing my face, washing my upper torso, running water through my hair. And. And I'm getting a chill even mentioning it now because it was such a beautiful place. And also the, um, the people around me were, you know, having a, like, a serious religious moment, and I couldn't help but have that myself. Um, so based on that whole experience, I pitched backpacker, um, on a story about spiritual hikes that you can take and, um, and the hike was, you know, was one of the jewels in that piece where I could talk about a place that really did have a, um, a, uh, a spiritual feel to it, uh, made me feel different to be there. I felt different now that I have been there and washed myself in the waters. And, you know, you're disbelieving. Listeners can say, oh, that guy's a religious sap, but, you know, until you're until you're there and the feeling washes over you, you don't know how it's going to affect you. And it affected me in a very big way.

Speaker 2

[00.35.26]

Well, I think everyone can agree that they've they probably carry some weight that they would like to have, you know, cleansed. And even it doesn't need to be that like it could be anywhere. But when you've got a goal that you're working towards and, and, and the end result is something like that. Um, yeah. That, that can have a, that could have an impact. Um, and, you know, it strikes me especially since that wasn't your intended destination, right? Like, you guys had to sort of switch, you had to change ideas on the fly and then come up with, um, what ended up, you know, what you were just explaining that you wrote that also has I mean, that feels like typical travel, like how a lot of these stories. Um, it's serendipity, right? Uh, turn out um, so, yeah, I mean, it sounds very beautiful. I know, I'm, I'm wondering. Okay, how do I how do I get there that I'd love to do that, too. So, um, really, really amazing that this is that was sort of your end part of the hike anyway. And what this sort of led up to.

Speaker 1

[00.36.30]

Yeah. You know, uh, lots of people get credit for having, um, used the phrase it's the journey, not the arrival that matters. So when I got to Kathmandu and found out I wasn't going into Lukla, I was in Nepal. I was going to make the most of it anyway. And okay, so I didn't have that experience of being at base camp, which I understand is a complete awful mess. So maybe I maybe I got saved from that and maybe there were there was some subtle wind blowing me into the direction of, uh, Kunda and, uh, Shiva and, uh, in the ritual bath. Plus I also up there. Not this very attractive hat. I bought this hat. I hope that is this going to be. Is this. Is this going out video or just. No no no no. Just audio. But I can explain. You know, it's a Nepalese beanie if you will, a tuk if you're Canadian with, uh, I don't know what's it called off the middle at the top of the peak of the hat. There's something there. There's drawstrings and. Yeah, got a wonderful pattern on it. I always wanted to have ponytails, and now I have some. It's a cold day, but, you know, it was it was an honor to spend $8 buying this beautiful hat from the woman who knitted it, uh, you know, in her tourist trap right next to Lake Secunda. I was very happy to support

Speaker 2

[00.37.51]

her. That's amazing. And I was going to say, maybe not such a subtle wind blowing you that way. You had a full monsoon. So, uh.

Speaker 1

[00.38.01]

Yeah. You know, you know, the whole thing about, uh, type one fun, type two fun and type three fun. The type three fun is the kind that kills you. Type two fun is the kind that when you come back, you have a heck of a story to tell. And I feel like the whole Nepal thing was type two in that I was uncomfortable for much of the time. I didn't sleep so well at night. We were in very difficult circumstances, you know, and I had all that Western guilt to carry with me while somebody else was carrying my pack. Um, but, you know, it was all such a vivid experience. Um, you know, based on coming on, you know, your show, I just reread my journals about it, and it was just, like, amazing to travel back there, put myself into the, you know, into the shoes of ten years ago. Me and to and to, uh, experience those raw, uh, emotions that I was having while all this was going on in Nepal.

Speaker 2

[00.38.55]

Sure. And I imagine, you know, you, you after working for Men's Health for so long, you know, at that stage something like that can be a bit more eye opening. Um, yeah, there's more to reflect on that anyway.

Speaker 1

[00.39.09]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think about I eventually spent 20 years working for Men's Health and, um, you know, a lot of it was, you know, I mean, it was a cool magazine to work for, and I learned a lot. And there's, you know, any office has a ton of drudgery to it, you know, head butting among employees. And I was a big boss, so I had to separate the warring parties. Um, you know, it was a big business enterprise. So as the cycles of business came and went, I was either happier or miserable, depending on how well we were doing and who was blaming me for it. So, like, all that stuff. You walk down a street in Kathmandu and like it all just goes away and you are locked into your the present moment, being that walking eyeball in the world, taking everything in. Uh, getting to eat my first Snickers Momo, which is a like a Snickers dumpling, which is a very delicious thing I would have I would have, you know. Um, momos in general are an amazing kind of, uh, you know, one handed dish. Um, so it's like, you know, the food, the people, how it all looked, having monkeys around me all the time, like all these things were just, you know, astonishing for a kid from Connecticut to, um, to, uh, you know, find himself immersed in all this so the office could go away. Even though he's doing interviews about it all the time. The office could go away to a certain extent, and I could just be there in the world, immersed, which was really a gift.

Speaker 2

[00.40.43]

That's lovely. So, um, any anything interesting on your way out of the hike and wrapping up the trip? How was the rest of

Speaker 1

[00.40.51]

it? Yeah. So we got back to Kathmandu and I took an hour long shower because I hadn't had a proper shower in two weeks. Um, that felt really good. Um, but then I was just like, I was so pumped up because I was in Kathmandu. I had another day to look at it, so I just like didn't look at a map. Just went. Went out and I started, like, ducking down alleyways and through doorways and, uh, spent some time, uh, standing in a schoolyard, um, with a bunch of, uh, you know, rambunctious, like, 200 rambunctious Nepali kids running around like crazy until they noticed the, uh, rogue Westerner in their in their midst. And they just could not even believe that I was standing there. It was like I was an apparition. So they would come up to me, ask me what my name was, touch my hair, touch my clothing, uh, just like to make sure that I was real. Which was hilarious and a lot of fun. It was great to be with those kids. And then I left the schoolyard and got out on the street was kind of exhilarated. I'm looking around, I think. I have no freaking idea where I am in Kathmandu right now. And for a moment there I was just, you know, panicking. I had wandered far off from the usual, um, uh, tourist center of, of Kathmandu. And, and I thought, you know, I'm just going to have to, like, do something illegal so that I can be arrested and taken back to where I belong. But that's when I just. I realized I'd been taking pictures with my iPhone the whole time. And I was thinking. There's one last chance to rescue myself. So I pulled out my phone, called up the maps app, and there was a blue dot that represented me blinking. I was thinking, you know. Thank goodness for that satellite. Way up there in space that is keeping track of irresponsible me. So I was holding my phone in my hand, watching the blue dot as it was, as as that dot was heading back toward the safety of the tourist area in Kathmandu. And eventually I made it back onto streets that I recognized. But, you know, just that exhilaration of being lost and nobody in the whole world knowing where I am. Severing all those ties. Um, just having the most stimulating, um, people and scenes and, you know, the entire world that was around me there in Kathmandu. It was, you know, it's it remains. One of my treasured travel memories was that I allowed myself through exuberance to become completely lost. And that is not a bad position to be in.

Speaker 2

[00.43.28]

I love that, I love that. Uh, nothing better than sort of following your curiosity. Um, you know, in. If you were writing, it'd almost be like a state of flow, right? Um, but in this case, you were just walking around and and enjoying enjoying the scenery. Or in this, the cityscape, I guess, in this case, but, um. No, that's that's beautiful.

Speaker 1

[00.43.52]

That's beautiful. It was total flow. And I actually at one point early on in my career, you know, do you know the theorists behind, um, flow Constantine sent me. Hi. Do you know that

Speaker 2

[00.44.00]

name? No, I do not. Yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.44.02]

He was a philosopher at the University of Chicago, and I wrote a story about him once. And the whole idea about flow was that you get into a circumstance where you're so immersed in what you're doing that all other thoughts vanish, and that you can only concentrate on the wonderful, important thing that's right in front of you. And it's a very Zen moment of being totally in the moment. I was in the moment. And, uh, when I was talking to, uh, uh, this, uh, philosopher from the University of Chicago and I have been in it many times before. And I guess that's the drug that keeps me traveling.

Speaker 2

[00.44.36]

Of course. Uh, well, before we before we wrap up, I do need to ask how did the story turn out? How did the how did the segment or whatever, whatever you want to call it on Nepal, how to turn out?

Speaker 1

[00.44.47]

It was it was pretty cool. And I remember wrapping up with an interview with, uh, a big radio station in New York in the in. The woman asked me, um, so, so what was your main takeaway or is there anything that you miss about Nepal now that you're back? And it was kind of what I began, uh, our conversation with was the whole idea of Namaste, that the the God within me honors and appreciates the God within you. And, you know, it's really a good way to go through life is to be looking for, you know, what's holy about each other rather than what's dastardly or devilish. And I'm not perfect at that. Obviously nobody is. But just having been introduced to that idea, you know, I traveled 5000 miles to find it, but I'm really glad I did. So Namaste, everybody.

Speaker 2

[00.45.39]

Namaste. Um, Peter, thank you so much for for joining us today. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate your time. But more importantly, I really appreciate that you've shared a wonderful story and you continue to share on your Substack as well, your drawing and writing. So yeah, just a big thank you.

Speaker 1

[00.45.58]

Okay. You're welcome. And Namaste, gang.

Speaker 2

[00.46.02]

Another big thank you to Peter for joining us on this episode and sharing, uh, a really interesting story and fantastic journey. Love. When you get to balance a little bit of work with travel. And I love when, uh, travel, uh, plan goes off plan, but ends up being all the better for it. As mentioned, I will drop, uh, Peter's Substack into the notes. Definitely go check it out. And as always, if you've got an amazing travel story that you'd like to share, you can find me at one off Travel Stories.