Alice's Unforgettable Safari in Zambia

Speaker 1

[00.00.00]

Oh, no, it goes on. So as soon as the zebra hit the ground, two male lions materialized out of the grass. And we had been there for 30 minutes and not seen them. So not even the tracker was able to see them. They just appeared out of seemingly nowhere.

Speaker 2

[00.00.21]

Hello and welcome to one off Travel Stories. I'm your host, Andrew Towers journey here. Each episode I chat with someone about one of their favorite travel stories, that one story they've told countless times to friends and family around the dinner table. On this episode, we'll be joined by Alice Abyss. She's a former intrepid traveler. She settled down a little bit in her in her home country as of late, but while she was traveling, she taught scuba in the United Arab Emirates. She also worked in sub-Saharan sub-Saharan Africa, which we'll hear a little bit about today. She hits through Mexico and travel around Southeast Asia, among lots of other places. Alice now owns her own publishing company called Asclepius Press. She publishes both her work and the work of independent authors. Um, I'll have her links up on the website one off Travel stories.com, but definitely check her out. She's got a travel memoir out called Take My Breath Far away from stories, um, around the world about her, her travels. Speaking of which, she's going to tell us a story today about her time in Africa. She was working in Malawi, but really wanted to see some of the bigger animals in Africa. So she headed to South Dunga National Park in Zambia. And, uh, well, the experience was quite something, but I'll, I'll let her, uh, tell us more.

Speaker 1

[00.01.52]

Hey,

Speaker 2

[00.01.53]

Alice. Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 1

[00.01.55]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2

[00.01.58]

Yeah, it's great to have you on. So good to have you on. I like to usually open up by asking, uh, where where are you? Um, calling in from? I know where video calling. So. Yeah. Where are you calling in from? I'm

Speaker 1

[00.02.09]

calling in from the United States.

Speaker 2

[00.02.12]

In your home country. In your home state. I take it like. Are you home?

Speaker 1

[00.02.15]

Yes. Yes, home with my dog.

Speaker 2

[00.02.19]

That's awesome. What, uh, what type of dog do you have?

Speaker 1

[00.02.22]

She's a mutt. I think she's got some Dalmatian in her.

Speaker 2

[00.02.29]

Um, well, it's great to have you on today. Um, yeah, I know, before we jump into the story, um, I, I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, some of the work that you've done. You're you're an author. Um, I believe you're also a scuba instructor. How did you get. And I should say one of your books is specifically about your travels. Um, but before we jump into the travels, how did you get into, uh, into writing?

Speaker 1

[00.02.55]

I've always been interested in writing, but as I've traveled, it is fueled my passion for writing. So my first book was a fantasy. It's called For My Kids, and it's not about travel, but it's influenced by my travel. So even though it's a fantasy and so much of is made up, I could visualize the different places because it's all based on places I've been. Like, there's caves and there's forests, and I try to add immersive details based on reality. So travel influences even my fantastical writing. And then my book, Take My Breath Far Away, is a travel memoir, and actually the experience we're going to talk about today catalyzed me writing everything down because I was like, whoa, that was crazy. I should start keeping track of these experiences and sharing them with others.

Speaker 2

[00.03.49]

That's that's so that's fascinating. The so, um, traveling has sort of if I'm reading from understanding correctly, it kind of fueled your creativity for whether that's not just travel memoirs, but your fantasy writing as well.

Speaker 1

[00.04.07]

Absolutely. And specifically nature and the way that nature is different in different places. I think that that's my biggest inspiration.

Speaker 2

[00.04.18]

Yeah. I, um, I can understand that the sort of variety you get where you might not have thought of, I don't know, it's like a waterfall. You might not have thought you'd ever see a waterfall so unique. And then you'll see another one where you're like, wow, you get blown away again. Something. Something along those lines. Yes. And the energy of different places, because no two waterfalls are the same. And even just day by day they're different. So and that's one thing I really enjoy with traveling is I haven't always traveled and been moving around constantly. I think that, like staying in one place, you can learn a lot more about how it changes over time. Yeah,

Speaker 1

[00.05.03]

and how it also stays the same. Yeah.

Speaker 2

[00.05.06]

Have you had the opportunity to live abroad or spend a longer period of time and somewhere away from home, if you will?

Speaker 1

[00.05.15]

Yeah. So the first time I ever left the United States. Actually, I might have gone on a cruise when I was little, but the first time I really left, I went to the United Arab Emirates and I was there for one year, and I was teaching scuba diving, and that was it was culture shock. It was everything. It shook me to my core. It changed. It changed everything about how I see myself, how I see the world around me and taught me to question everything. And I was able to dive the same reef day after day after day and learn, okay, these fish are here at this time of day, and this ray is going to be here when the moon is full. Like everything comes together when you're able to visit the same place again and again and again. So I love to travel. I love to see different things, but I also love to become intimate with one spot

Speaker 2

[00.06.11]

that's beautiful. I, um, I think a lot of people I speak to, myself included. I think I'm guilty of always wanting to keep moving and see new places. And, um, maybe I've missed out on times of of getting that that understanding that you're, that you're talking about.

Speaker 1

[00.06.31]

Yeah. And then after the United Arab Emirates, I was in Malawi for about four months. So that's when I took a jaunt over to Zambia. Um, and then I spent about seven months in Bali in a tiny village. And I got to learn all those fish, all those reefs. Um, so I really love staying in one spot, even though I love traveling. You know, it's kind of ironic, but even, like, then I went to California and I was farming. Then I got to learn how, like, I love to learn how nature changes and things like that. But then I got to learn about how man can change nature and how, like, we can sow the seeds and create new environments.

Speaker 2

[00.07.19]

Yeah. And, um, you get to sort of watch the cycle, um, of development throughout, you know, usually a cyclical year, but there's longer cycles and shorter cycles. Um, were you so, um, were you working in all these places, scuba diving, instructing, if I, if I recall correctly. Yes. Um, sometimes. And sometimes not. I've been working on writing for a while, so sometimes I was able to support myself. Yeah. Writing blogs. Um, I didn't release books while I was traveling. I sold a manuscript to a publisher, but a lot of it was like writing. And a lot of it was traveling really, really cheap. I've done hitchhiking. And so, yeah, kind of like working with the restaurants. Hey, you know, I'll leave you a TripAdvisor review if you feed me, like, really kind of bumming

Speaker 1

[00.08.19]

all around the world,

Speaker 2

[00.08.21]

I love that. Yeah, I love that. I feel like especially online, there's a lot of great information from people solo traveling about how to, how to basically, um, do it on the cheap, do it on the cheap. Yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.08.37]

And for anyone listening who is interested in that, I'd recommend work away couchsurfing worldwide opportunities on organic farms and then just kind of meeting people. I think like if you have. Skills that you could offer. Like sometimes I would do photography for hotels, different things like that, like trade and barter systems. It can work and travelers you will always find serendipity. So if you just trust wherever you're going, you'll be on the right path. Someone you'll meet, the right people. It kind of works out. I love that perspective. Um, I think I think it's a great way and I big supporter of everyone who just does what they can to travel because as you said, it inspired you for your writing. I think it can inspire, uh, people for all sorts of things. Mhm. Um,

Speaker 2

[00.09.30]

before before I ask you to jump into the story, I also noticed, uh, you do a little juggling. Is that, is that something you've always kind of done?

Speaker 1

[00.09.40]

Yes. Well I did grow up in the circus and I've taken that on the road with me. I used to travel with my slack line. So if people who aren't familiar, that's kind of like a seatbelt that you tie between two trees and you walk on it. So I love to snack on. I remember in Africa I was teaching all these kids in the village how to glide and helping them walk on. It was so cute. And yeah, I love to juggle too. It's a good it's a good way to relax. I mean, and you could juggle with anything on the road, like you've already seen the plastic bottles that I was juggling.

Speaker 2

[00.10.19]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1

[00.10.21]

Anything can be juggled.

Speaker 2

[00.10.24]

That's awesome. I also juggle, so it stood out to me. But I've been struggling with five ball for many months now. Yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.10.35]

Struggling with juggling.

Speaker 2

[00.10.38]

Yeah, exactly. Um. All right, well, I know you've got a great story, um, lined up for us. So, uh, if you don't mind, could you give a little bit of, of context about the story itself? You know, what year it was, if you can remember where, where, where were you or where were you going and why were you going there?

Speaker 1

[00.10.59]

It was September of 2017 and I had been in Africa for a few months. I was in the bush helping out on a wildlife reserve and that reserve. It didn't have any big predators. It had giraffes, zebras and it was huge. But it wasn't big enough for lions and elephants. And, um, some of the people at the reserve knew that I wanted to see lions and elephants. And they said, okay, you've got to go to South Luangwa. And I had set it up. I was going to go. And then they're like, oh, well, we want to watch a rugby match and you'll have to go next week. And I, I went with the flow. So okay. Which ended up being very lucky. Like instead of forcing no, no, no I really want to go going with the flow, I ended up in my favor. Um, so before I left, uh, one of the people at the reserve, he said, well, you're gonna look up South Luangwa National Park and you're going to see pictures of a lion kill, and you're going to think that that's going to happen. But I worked there for eight years that I never saw that. And I said, no, like, I never expect anything in nature ever. Like, right. I would be happy just to, like, see where the lions live. I wasn't even thinking, I'm going to see a lion. I was thinking, I'm just fortunate to be here. Um, anyway, so. Yeah. I'm sorry. You you said you were working on a wildlife reserve, so I think I missed this, but which country were you in at the time? In Malawi.

Speaker 2

[00.12.42]

In Malawi. Okay. And, um. I asked. How did you. I'm just curious. How did you find a wildlife reserve to work the work at? Oh,

Speaker 1

[00.12.52]

that's a good question. Uh, when I. Well, I wasn't, like, necessarily working. I was kind of just, like, helping out and stuff with their helping out with their, like, volunteer program, helping them wrangle the city folk and the bush. Um, yeah. Which is a challenge because there were so many snakes there. My God. Um, so when I left the UAE, where I was teaching diving, like I love to go to the UAE, but I knew in my heart and my soul that I had to go to Africa. I knew, like from the moment that I could start thinking that I had to go to Africa, it was like one of the first things I ever said is just this fire burning in me. So when I left the UAE, I sent out like 5000 emails, which sounds crazy. And it was, I said 5000 emails to every single place in Africa. This is before I knew about Work Away. Yeah. Anyway, I sent out so many emails and I got three no's. Like out of 5000 emails, I got three people that said outright no, no way. And then I just got one. Yes. And that's all it takes to change your life is one. Yes, you could get so many no's and it really doesn't matter. But. So yeah, I ended up on that wildlife reserve and it was. It was so beautiful.

Speaker 2

[00.14.09]

That's amazing. So, um, Malawi was sort of your first stop in Africa. And, um, by that point you hadn't seen kind of big game on like some of the big game, if you will, like the Lions. Um, so this was kind of like, hey, you want to get out there and, and you want to go to where

Speaker 1

[00.14.29]

they are? Yes, exactly. It was for listeners who aren't familiar. I wanted to go to a big five reserve. So big five is the top five animals in Africa most likely to kill you according to hunters, right. So not including the mosquitoes, those are really the worst, but. Right. Um, the big five, it's three herbivores, two carnivores, the African buffalo, the rhino and the, um. And the lion and the leopard. And the rhino is only in North Wanga. They might have introduced him to South Luongo. So it's technically big four, not big five, at least when I was there. Um. And the elephant, of course. The elephant. It's the elephant. The buffalo, the rhino. The line and the leopard. Or the big five. So I wanted to go and see them in their natural habitat. Um, so my, uh, supervisor at the wildlife reserve said, you've got to go to South Luangwa like, it's so beautiful. And it was in the end of September. So this to set the scene, this is the end of the dry season. It hadn't rained for months and everything was orange. The animals, they get so skinny in the dry season. This was the very end. The lions were hungry. The zebras they don't have enough to drink. Like it's really like the toughest time of the year for the animals. So that's when I set out into the bush. I took buses for 14 hours and one of the buses broke down and I had to hitchhike with a police officer. I've already gone to the. That was my first time hiking. I finally got to the lodge and I got there in the middle of the night. And in Africa, in the bush. The the bush is never silent. So the night birds were singing. The night bugs were cricketing, the frogs were riveting. You know, everything is always alive in the African bush. And I set up my tent, set up my tent. I, you know, set up this tent on the bank of the most croc and hippo infested river in the world, right on the border of the national park, next to a lodge. I could very well have slept in the lodge. No, I wanted to sleep in my tent. A leopard came and visited me in the night.

Speaker 2

[00.16.56]

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1

[00.16.58]

Yeah. So that gave me a good fright. Um. That terrified me. The elephants, they came, they sang all around my tent. I had lemon flavored cough drops that I was traveling with, which I don't recommend if you're going to camp in the African bush because all the elephants wanted to come and check it out, they were eating the flowers off the top of my tent. One knocked down a tree next to my tent. It was so wild, so odd. At first I was like, oh, I wonder why everyone else is camping in a vehicle.

Speaker 2

[00.17.31]

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.17.33]

What's no one else?

Speaker 2

[00.17.34]

That's what kind of sounds like a little, almost like a fairy tale with all the animals coming around, like meandering around you. Uh, had you done much like camping? Uh, maybe. Obviously not in Africa necessarily, but it sounds like you were pretty comfortable, um, with camping anyway, being out in nature. I mean, you talked a lot about nature. That's far too.

Speaker 1

[00.17.57]

Well, that was actually my first time ever camping by myself. Oh, my. I was camping one night before that with my friends family on Christmas. Uh, but that was my first time camping by myself. But there was just something that told me that I was going to be okay. And I had this burning passion for the African bush. I still have it in me. And I just knew like, no, I'm I'm not going inside the lodge. I want to sleep in the wild.

Speaker 2

[00.18.27]

Okay, well, the lodge was not too far away as well. You just wanted you wanted to be outside in the wild, as you said. Yeah,

Speaker 1

[00.18.35]

yeah, in the wild. And it was. It got a little wild there. I mean, I don't want to get too derailed from the main story, but. In the middle of the night, I heard these baboons going crazy, and I sit up in my tent and I'm like, that's so weird, because baboons sleep at night and then everything goes silent. There's no more frogs, there's no more birds, there's no more bugs. And I'm like, that is. That's pretty bizarre, I think, okay, I should just go back to sleep. Then I hear the tiniest little meow next to my tent, and I'm still thinking, okay, I mean, it's probably like a serval or a car call. I don't want to worry too much. And then I hear, like, the guttural low grunt of a mother leopard. Oh my God. Totally frozen in fear. And then I woke up. The next day. I saw the leopard had urinated on my tent. And I mean, I had the opportunity to sleep inside, but I was like, no, that leopard is going to protect me from the other leopards.

Speaker 2

[00.19.40]

Well, that's, uh. Yeah, a good way to think about it, I guess. I would probably be like, I've had enough of that. Enough of camping. Now I'm going to go in, but, uh, maybe you're a bit more courageous.

Speaker 1

[00.19.52]

I'm a strong advocate of prey versus predator mentality, so. I think that if you think of yourself as prey, you will become prey. Gotcha.

Speaker 2

[00.20.04]

Yeah. That's

Speaker 1

[00.20.05]

interesting. That's how it's been for me with, like, sharks, barracudas, all kinds of animals. I think you have to bluff.

Speaker 2

[00.20.13]

Stay calm. Even when

Speaker 1

[00.20.14]

you're not right. When you're. When you're not. When you're not feeling brave. You have to pretend like you're brave. Yeah,

Speaker 2

[00.20.22]

yeah, that's certainly good advice if you find yourself in one of those situations.

Speaker 1

[00.20.27]

Yeah. Just. Just pretend like you're brave. I mean, I was charged by a wildebeest while I was on foot, and I just kicked up some dust and threw my arms around, and he walked away. He didn't want to hurt me, you know?

Speaker 2

[00.20.44]

Uh, I don't know if I know. Again, he just. It's it's, um. I mean, good for you that you're able to do that because you're right. I mean, um, you do need to be calm in those moments and decide the best course of action. And a lot of times it's it's bluffing.

Speaker 1

[00.21.01]

Mhm.

Speaker 2

[00.21.02]

Um, okay. So you spent your first night there. You've already experienced a lot of, of the animals in the bush. Uh, which next drank

Speaker 1

[00.21.11]

some coffee and I booked a safari. So they do uh. Typically in the bush, they'll do a morning drive and then a night drive. So I went on both oh my God, I saw the cubs nursing off the mother lions. I felt like the luckiest person in the world. Slept in the tent without sleeping. Like laid down in the tent. Probably didn't sleep at all. And then the next day I booked another morning drive. And normally when I'm traveling, I just, oh, I want to get lost. I don't want a tour guide, but it's harder, you know, when you're surrounded by lions, you can't just walk around. You could walk around, but it might be the last walk you take. Right? Um, so I was in a 4x4 safari vehicle, and that morning drive, we saw a leopard in a tree. We saw a leopard walking around. It was amazing. A, uh, elephant came right up to the vehicle, stuck his trunk in my face, snorted all over me. So we just keep going on, and I'm thinking, this just can't get any better. I'm thinking like, this is my bucket list. I've done it. Check check, check. I'm feeling like so grateful, I think that. I'm just the luckiest person in the world. Well, little did I know, I was going to get even luckier. So then we keep driving and the dense forest kind of falls away, and then we're in like, it's just dead trees and a ravine because it's the dry season. So the river might be like 30ft deep in the wet season, and then it just turns into a canyon. So we see this tiny trickle of water in three zebras and like, six lionesses all staring at those zebras, all hidden in the grass. And then the the tracker. He parks the car and he turns around. He says to me, in this Australian family, he says, we're about to be very lucky. And so I've been taking scuba divers around for a year before that. And I knew you don't make promises that aren't going to deliver. So I was like, whoa, we're gonna see we're gonna see the action here. And oh my God, I don't know how the lines knew that the zebras were going to run up that way. I don't know how they knew it, but the zebras, they're drinking their water, and it's two mares and a three year old. So a two and a half, three year old. So it's a subadult. So this zebra was old enough. He could have walked off on his own. He could have started his own life. But oh man. So the the two mares, they walk up out of the ravine, the lions go after them and they get away. And then the little zebra is just in the ravine by himself. Oh, no, he's got these big eyes. He heard the lions chased down his mother. He heard that. But he's like, oh, no. Do I walk along the ravine? You could see him looking. Do I walk down there or do I go to try to find my mother? And he made the wrong decision. So that little zebra ran up the ravine and right into the Lion's Trap. There was one female. Left out of the grass, grabbed him on his haunches. And he's he's bucking, he's kicking. He's trying to get away. Then he ran straight into another lioness who was hidden in the grass, grabbed him on his chest and pulled him to the ground. So it was so coordinated. It was incredible to watch the way that the lionesses planned the attack. Like they didn't just happen to catch the zebra.

Speaker 2

[00.25.02]

Yeah, and you guys, I mean, it sounds like you had a vantage point. It's amazing that you could see their setup, if that makes sense. Like you could see what they were kind of planning, as you said, and how they knew where the zebras might go next. Yes. I have no idea how they knew because the zebras could have walked in the opposite direction. Yeah. That's interesting. Um, and crazy. I mean, as you said, you were speaking to someone at the reserve who basically said, you know, you're not going to see. You probably won't see too much, so don't get your hopes up.

Speaker 1

[00.25.41]

Yeah. So. Oh, my God, I was so excited to go back and show them the pictures.

Speaker 2

[00.25.48]

Yeah. I mean, it seems like you may have. Did you just see, like, all the big five and then a bunch of other animals as well?

Speaker 1

[00.25.56]

Well, I've never seen a rhino because like the, the national park at least seven years ago when this happened, the southern portion is open to safari and then the northern portion is. Or it was like for rhinos only. Not for rhinos only, but like protected, like no tourists could come. It was like locked down for anti-poaching reasons. So I've never seen a rhino. But yeah, I saw hundreds and hundreds of buffalo. And then it's insane because you see all these buffalo and then you're like, okay, you just gotta look around and you'll see a lion. Wherever there's hundreds of buffalo, there's lions just following them. It's so big,

Speaker 2

[00.26.38]

I, I probably would it would have been a little heartbroken to see because the, the younger zebra. Um, I know that's just the, the cycle of, of life. Right. But, uh, always tough anyway, um, well, that's why this experience stuck with me because it was both beautiful and horrifying. Thrilling and depressing. There's a duality to this event in nature. That it is kind of shaped the way that I see the world, the way that I see everything in life, like. Yeah, I mean, it's brought me down a path where, like, I've hunted my own food because I'm like, yeah, this is this is just the way it is. Yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.27.29]

I'm not as good a hunter as a lion, though. I miss a lot.

Speaker 2

[00.27.34]

Um, I think that's a, you know, the duality is a great way to put it. Um, it's tough, but life. Life can be tough. Uh, so after that, I mean, uh, was was that the end of sort of your your your tour, if you will. I know you were in a, in a vehicle with another family.

Speaker 1

[00.27.55]

Oh, no, it goes on. So as soon as the zebra hit the ground, two male lions materialized out of the

Speaker 2

[00.28.03]

grass. Oh, okay. And

Speaker 1

[00.28.05]

we had been there for 30 minutes and not seen them, so not even the tracker was able to see them. They just appeared out of seemingly nowhere. And one of them was not albino, but. Really, really pale. So it's like he was able to hide from us. It's terrifying. And also amazing how well these cats are able to hide. Uh, so they appeared. And then there's eight lines going after the zebra. And the zebra is fighting for its life. They. The thing is, like tigers, leopards, solitary cats, they go right for the throat. They want the animal to be incapacitated because if they get injured, they can't hunt anymore. But for the lions, especially at the end of the dry season, there's so hungry that they don't care if the zebra is still alive. If they get hurt, they have their pride to rely on. So they ate the zebra alive. Zebra is kicking, kicking, kicking, trying to get away. He's still fighting for his life. So I thought the zebra like. It's very sad that the zebra died. But at the same time, it was also inspiring to watch the zebra never give up. Not until its last breath did the Z ever give up. He even reached up and bit a tuft of hair out of the big male lion. And that's when one of the females said, okay, I'll put him down. Like it took so much for them to finally put the zebra down. But the zebra never gave up on his life. I thought that that was, like, incredible to witness the fight in the animal, the fight till the very end. Um, so that zebra inspired me so much. I got a tattoo with that little zebra eye. Oh, wow. Yeah, I loved it. And then. So after we watched the the zebra go down, they radioed for the other safari vehicles to come and watch. So these lines were just feasting for an hour, and there was, um, a few more vehicles came to watch that. And eventually the Lions started to get into a fight. So you can imagine this £800 cat standing up on his haunches, slapping the other one and the roaring and the screaming, oh my God, it was so intense. Like when you see it on National Geographic. That's like 1% of the noise. It's

Speaker 2

[00.30.35]

unreal. That's crazy. How far away from, um, like when you were sitting there in the vehicle. How far? Like did they. Did they ever notice you?

Speaker 1

[00.30.47]

Yeah. So when we first pulled up and we saw the lionesses and they were getting into formation, one of them walked so close to the vehicle that her whiskers brushed up against it. And I was like, oh, man, this is this is crazy.

Speaker 2

[00.31.05]

The tension. Tension in the air.

Speaker 1

[00.31.07]

Yeah, yeah. And then, um, we were I had, uh, 200 millimeter lens, which was able to, like, zoom in and get it. But then once the zebra hit the ground, the tracker pulled us up, like, 20ft away. Yeah. Which felt like we're very close. We are very close to these cats right now. No walls on the vehicle, you know what I mean? So it was a it was. Whoa, very, very exciting. And when the lion started fighting, the big male and one of the females got into this fight. The female comes and lays down right next to me, like in the grass, right in front of the car. I could have scratched behind her ears. I was like, oh my God. I just started inching back.

Speaker 2

[00.31.55]

Wow. Um, well, that's I mean, I guess, I mean, that's more or less you that's what you set out there to see, right? I mean, maybe not that particular scene, but the animals themselves, so. Wow. You you certainly, um, got the whole show.

Speaker 1

[00.32.12]

Certainly. And I feel so fortunate. So blessed. Like, I never go into nature thinking, I want to see this and this and this. Some people, they go in safari and they have, like, a checklist and an itinerary, and nature will never stick to a plan. And so I just felt like the luckiest person in the world. I felt so fortunate. It still feels like the luckiest thing that ever happened to me. Uh, not like I'm celebrating the death, but just, I mean. Lions have to eat either way. You know, it was just lucky to see it. And then we came back for the night safari, back to that spot and all the lines were still there. They were just sleeping full bellies. And then that night, I crawled back into my tent and my tent right on the river, and I heard the lions crossing the river. Oh,

Speaker 2

[00.33.06]

man, I was gonna say, I don't think I would have been back in the tent that that particular night. At least you knew they were fed.

Speaker 1

[00.33.15]

Yeah. Well, then, like the crocodiles or hissing and splashing at them, it was, oh, my God, it was so crazy. And I was like, so much adrenaline that day that I just went to sleep. I was like, I felt like, okay, life mission succeeded. I saw more than I ever dreamed to see. So yeah, but like I said, I think a lot of it has to do with like, faith, um, believing that things would be okay. And, um, for some reason, the animals don't realize that the tents contain people like other people have camped there before, and they've been fine. I know that, like I heard in Botswana, some of the hyenas figured out to get into the tents and eat the people, but it's just like being in the safari vehicle. For some reason they don't jump in and eat us. I don't know why, but. Yeah, I just don't. I don't know why. I saw a different herd of lions sitting by a different riverbank. And there were some Zambian fishermen walking like barefoot, just with big long sticks, walking barefoot by the side of the riverbank. And the lions were watching them like. Just like they watched the zebra. I was like, whoa, these men, they're brave. They're walking barefoot next to these crocodiles, these lions, these hippos. Yeah. I'm not I'm not that brave. But I did a walking safari there, too, with a guy with a shotgun. The walk in safari? Yeah, that that makes sense. It's good, you know? You never know. It's good to have something. I still. And I've known this about tents. The magical, the magical properties of tents. It still doesn't feel like that inside them, though. You know, if you know that, how small the, uh, there's like a, like a nylon nylon barrier between you, it's not much, but. Yeah. Um, that's a good point. Sort of the same in, in North America with, with bears. Right. Yeah. They don't tend to like jump in if you will. Don't tend to. Again I it's a lot to put faith in a, in a tent. Um.

Speaker 2

[00.35.31]

That's, it's a that's a that's a wild experience. Um, pretty crazy that, you know, I like your your perspective. You know, you're setting out just just to get out there. Not with any real expectations, but, um, when you, when you do that in anything, I find that that it it it makes it feel a lot more special when your expectations are surpassed as well.

Speaker 1

[00.35.55]

Yes. That's true. And I have this theory that everything around us is alive. And perhaps he can sense our intentions. Like when I had scuba clients who said I went to see this and this and this and this they never would like, it was only the whale sharks only came for the clients that were happy with the clownfish.

Speaker 2

[00.36.16]

That's funny. I have a friend who's got an equation that is happiness equals reality minus expectations. Um, and sometimes that that tends to hold true honestly. Uh, like, it's it's a good practice to not set yourself with super high expectations. It's also just kind of funny, as you said, the ones that are just there to see clownfish get there, get the full show.

Speaker 1

[00.36.42]

Oh, yeah, I, I spent, uh, about a week helping out this film crew. They had come to Indonesia because they wanted to find dugong. And I said, good luck with that. But I helped them. Right. And there is no dugong. The dugong did not come for their cameras. And then the day they left, I went out swimming and the dugong swam right up to me.

Speaker 2

[00.37.05]

Go figure, go figure. Um, so after after that, where you did, you head back to, uh, Malawi?

Speaker 1

[00.37.14]

Yeah. So those pictures to the guy that said I wouldn't see it like.

Speaker 2

[00.37.20]

Oh, yeah. They must. He must have been shocked, actually.

Speaker 1

[00.37.23]

He said, You Americans, you go to Africa, you see whatever you want.

Speaker 2

[00.37.31]

Oh, no. I mean, I think based on our conversation, that's probably not true. You're you're you're you're going out there with no expectations. You're you're spending time in nature, um, staying in a tent at night, like, it seems to me that that's the way to to set yourself up for success, if you will.

Speaker 1

[00.37.53]

Yeah. And I think that, like, gratitude isn't part of it, because I was just like, wow, I'm in line territory, you know? Oh, I'm not even, like, dead set on seeing a line. I really wanted to, but I worked hard to let go of the force. You know, when you're trying to force something in nature, nature always resists. Like. And I learned that when when I started spearfishing. No. Oh, I really need a big fish. I'm so hungry. No. No way. Right. It's kind of like, as you said earlier with, uh, bluffing with big animals. Uh, it's like nature can tell you need to be relaxed. Um, and, you know, just out there and calm

Speaker 2

[00.38.42]

and those wants and needs, they show up, right?

Speaker 1

[00.38.45]

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Like, I need to survive this wildebeest.

Speaker 2

[00.38.51]

So, um, thank you for sharing. That's a that was a wild story. Um. Really cool. I love your perspectives on on sort of travel, especially in nature as well. What's, um, I you're a writer. You put out a book about your experiences. What's what sort of next? Are you still writing? Are you planning anything in the future? Any future travels as well?

Speaker 1

[00.39.14]

I've settled down. I got married, so no, I'm not really set on traveling anymore. I welcome the opportunity if it presents itself, but I don't see anything in particular. Um, um, I'd like to go to Key West and go to the Hemingway house, but my focus is shifted from the books or from travel to the books. Um, are

Speaker 2

[00.39.37]

you going to be, uh, writing more?

Speaker 1

[00.39.39]

Oh, yes. Yes, I've got a few more books on the way. There's a lot cooking. Um, and I'm also helping other authors publish their books.

Speaker 2

[00.39.49]

Oh, that's that's awesome. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

Speaker 1

[00.39.52]

Sure. So I created my publishing house, Asclepius Press. Asclepius, like the Greek god of medicine. And, um, I helped one person publish his book. And I am going through some queries of other authors who'd like to get their work published. And I mean, like in the publishing landscape, there's a lot of. Sensitivity, but I kind of want to let authors write what they want to write. Like I my publishing house is a not a censoring publishing house. I like with my book taking my breath far Away. It has that wonderful story that I just shared with you that, you know, some people might not like, right? But I, I value the truth and I value the integrity of the story. So that's kind of the the mission of the publishing house, you could say, is to heal the ills of publishing.

Speaker 2

[00.40.56]

Gotcha.

Speaker 1

[00.40.58]

Yeah. We just I just want to stay true to the story and what the author has to say. And, uh, I want people to be able to express themselves without any fear. Like, there's some authors who they lose their publishing contracts and things like that if they express a certain opinion. And I think, you know, it just is what it is. I want people to be themselves. So I, I work with authors who. They don't want to fit into a box.

Speaker 2

[00.41.28]

Right. Well, if there are any authors listening, then, uh, and you seem to fit in that into that mission, then, you know, look, look up Alice, and I'm sure she can help. It sounds like, uh, sounds like you're passionate about this, which is great.

Speaker 1

[00.41.43]

Yes. And I would love to publish a travel memoir. Another one for someone so they can send their queries to info at Asclepius dot press, Asclepius dot press.

Speaker 2

[00.42.01]

I'll also actually on the page that you're all your info, your links website, all that stuff will be on on one off travel stories.com. So if you have any trouble finding it you can go there. But um, with that, Alice, um, thanks so much for coming on. Uh, it's really been been a treat chatting with you. That's a wonderful, wonderful story. Really, really quite a crazy experience. But, um, I really appreciate your perspective on, on travel and some of these topics as well.

Speaker 1

[00.42.36]

Thank you so much for having me, Andrew. I love talking to you. Well, I

Speaker 2

[00.42.39]

appreciate that. It was great talking to you as well and have a great rest of your day.

Speaker 1

[00.42.44]

Thank you. You too.

Speaker 2

[00.42.47]

A big thank you to Alice for coming on the podcast and sharing her experience with us today. If you do want to find out more about Alice's publishing house or read her travel memoir, Take My Breath Far Away, I've got the links up on one off Travel stories.com, where you'll be able to find her socials and her website. As always, thank you for joining and we'll see you next time.